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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:17 am 
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well, 'recommending' a technique isn't the way I would ever put it - with this article, I was just trying to explain one of the main techniques that I personally use in much if my painting. I use this method a lot, because I like it - but there are other methods of course. So you should think to yourself when you start painting: what method will serve me the best here, on this particular surface? Which technique will help me to achieve the effect I desire for this part of the mini?

You yes of course you can use juices for space marine armour - you can use it for everything if you want to. But it's good to have some variety with different textures and effects when painting as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:25 am 
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Yup I realise that. I'm just wondering if this is easier? My normal method of just blending the paints then painting them on in lesser and lesser area doesn't seem to be working - unless it just comes down to practise :P


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:29 am 
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Is it easier? Well I can't answer that! It depends on you :P I personally find it easier....but I never paint in the old layering method anymore so it's hard for me to say. I don't think there is really any such thing as 'easier' or 'harder' in painting...it just comes down to time: different methods are simply more or less time consuming, rather than easier or harder.

So why don't you just try it? That's the only way to find out.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:18 pm 
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automaton wrote:
Is it easier? Well I can't answer that! It depends on you :P I personally find it easier....but I never paint in the old layering method anymore so it's hard for me to say. I don't think there is really any such thing as 'easier' or 'harder' in painting...it just comes down to time: different methods are simply more or less time consuming, rather than easier or harder.

So why don't you just try it? That's the only way to find out.



I thought this was a form of layering. Now I'm confused... :(


Tommy. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:49 pm 
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well it is a form of layering, sort of - but when one talks about 'layering' as a painting technique, it usually refers to the method where you go from a dark tone to a light tone by painting lots of layers gradually increasing in lightness one over the other, gradually withdrawing the area covered with each layuer until there is only a tiny final highlight of the lightest colour. For example, let's say you were painting blue with GW paints. Maybe you would be using GW regal blue and GW ice blue, let's say. SO, you might start with regal blue as a base coat. Then you mix in a little ice blue to the regal blue, and paint the first layer. Then a little more ice blue for the next layer. Then a little more ice blue, and so on, until you reach pure ice blue for the final tiny layer. That's layering.

But this method is quite different from that, because you are not painting single, opaque layers, but many layers with very translucent paint to slowly build up the opacity. SO to keep using the above example, let's say we had regal blue and ice blue again. But this time, after the regal blue base coat, you could in theory go straight to using pure ice blue juices, if you dilute the paint enough, and slowly build up the lighter colour with many successive thin layers. Normally I wouldn't make such a huge jump in colour - probably one or two middle tones in between the two extremes - but you can in theory make huge jumps like that.

So you see the difference? The other benefit of the juices is that you are not so restricted in the colours you use: you can use completely different colours at any stage in the process...maybe you might want to use red as the first juice, then sway to green for some nuances in the shadows, then yellow to highlight...you can use whatever colour at any point in the process, rather than worrying about having to mix things together to take gradual steps as you would in layering. Plus the colours will retain their integrity using juices, because they don't need to be mixed in the layering way. You see what I mean? The flexibility in colour use is what I enjoy so much about this technique, when I compare it with the old layering technique I used to use.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:10 pm 
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Now it makes much more sense :D

Layering is what I do - and I can definitely see and understand its drawbacks. That said, it's the only style I know at the moment so will stick with it until I'm heaps happy, then try this technique.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:11 pm 
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I see! Thanks for the info - I appreciate it! :D


Tommy. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Wow. Like another light bulb just went on. I thought you used juices of each layer of colour like in layering, but if you use quite different toned paint in really thin paints it makes much more sense. Hopefully i can put this into practice.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Ive been trying this, as i really struggle with layering. However i still tend to not place them correctly. Im getting my consistency better, but i still cant seem to get it right. I tend to get three highlights looks okish, but as soon as i go higher it washes out and looks chalky.

I suspect im going at it too long, getting frustrated and rushing.. thats my only guess at the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:12 am 
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I have the exact same problem :(


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:37 pm 
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How watery is your paint. If you can see the pigment strongly then you need more water.

EDIT: Don't forget you're putting your final highlight colour as the basecoat and juicing DOWN.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Ashigaru wrote:
EDIT: Don't forget you're putting your final highlight colour as the basecoat and juicing DOWN.


I dont beleive that to be the case. Especially from Automatons example above, he suggest starting with a dark blue (midnight), then using juices of light blue (ice) to highlight and get all tones inbetween. I guess there is nothing stopping you doing it any way you liked, perhaps starting with a midtone and juicing both up AND down would give the most visually appealing way.

Just hypothesizing here :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:09 pm 
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First of all when I think of this technique, I am thinking there are no rules, do it how ever you like, if you wanna do the midtone do the mid tone, if you wanna do the lights colour do the lightest colour. I doesnt really matter.

I find this way of painting better for me, because I dont have to concentrate as much as if I was layering, you just paint where you want to paint the colour. If you are shading, then paint it in the grooves and areas with not much light, the opposite for the highlighting. The Most inmportant thing is that you use really watered down paint. If the paint is that thin, then you can keep painting over the area in different colour to get the desired effect, without fear of it getting thick.

This may help you out:
http://www.figurines-tv.com/kws/index.php?mod=telechargements&ac=fichier&id=23&PHPSESSID=001a094abdb5b937c85814965cc1844a
Note, it is a French site and you need to sign up. Its well worth it but..... If you can understand how to sign up, go to the video section and there are other vids aswell.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:48 pm 
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Aidan_K wrote:

...from Automatons example above, he suggest starting with a dark blue (midnight), then using juices of light blue (ice) to highlight and get all tones inbetween.


Sorry I didn't mean to give the wrong impression - I wouldn't suggest doing it that way at all, I was jsut trying to illustrate a point. Normally I start with a mid tone and use various different tones to shade and highlight.

Kyle is right though, the you can do it whatever way you want...the strength of this technique is that you can add colour of any range of light or darkness at any stage of the process - you are not locked into doing it 'in order' from dark to light, as you are with layering. After I paint the base colour, I mix up a whole range of different colours on my palette to shade, some neutral tones, some brighter colours, some darker, some lighter. Then I use them all at once: a bit of this colour here, a bit there, rapidly changing between colours and observing the changes, then adding extra layers of different colours where needed. It's very flexible, that's why i like it/

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:50 pm 
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automaton wrote:
Aidan_K wrote:

...from Automatons example above, he suggest starting with a dark blue (midnight), then using juices of light blue (ice) to highlight and get all tones inbetween.


Sorry I didn't mean to give the wrong impression - I wouldn't suggest doing it that way at all, I was jsut trying to illustrate a point. Normally I start with a mid tone and use various different tones to shade and highlight.


Yeah, sorry, I realised that, I was just making the point that to say a painter "always juices down a colour" (ashigaru) is not correct. You can do it that way, you can do it shade up to highlight or like your example on the first post using a light green to highlight and a dark green to shade your midtone.

The least I can gather, true for almost anything, is that there is no one right way!

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