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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:46 pm
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Location: Brisbane
I should come down and get some tips too ^_^


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:03 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I'll just have to get my wings on and come over too!

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Except for that poor little pewter bastard who keeps getting dunked in the acetone. Probably sucks to be him."


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:43 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 8:57 pm
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I use one of these, cheap, does the job :P

http://www.artifolk.co.uk/catalog/produ ... lettes.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:16 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Osaka, Japan
Hey all - I've been practicing this method and I'm slowly getting there.

Heres what I got so far (I had to finish up painting so some parts lack depth/contrast)

Image

I wanted to add some tips for those that are learning the technique too which may be missed by the better painters here since such things are probs 2nd nature to them :P

* Plasti-card is a great tool to test opacity on before applying to a mini. I'm not good at measuring (or maybe I'm just lazy) when it comes to thinning out paint so this allows me to throw a few brush loads of water in, test and add more paint or water depending how it's looking.

* Like Automaton says, tiny amount of paint then unload it all... I never realised this and tried to rush. Keep applying those layers and they will build up.

* Check your brush, basically if you can see the pigment on the brush, you need to wash it. This happens to me when I don't wash my brush enough... so I've started doing it almost every layer. Painting licking works too but I like to be SURE there's no paint on there.

* Light colours - whoa they're hard to use, white is nuts... I find (and I think this is right for most people?) they need thining much and many many more layers or it just comes out chalky.

* I use a wet palette, it kinda helps but still the paint sinks into the paper and drys overtime. Re-wetting it doesn't work so well for me either... hmm I might try using a palette with wells, adding the colours, then either placing them on plasti-card or the wet palette.

Hopefully post more soon.. I'm very excited I feel like I'm improving slowly (and I've only painted a year but didn't get much done in the past year because of work) :(

Thanks :D

Gaz


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:29 am
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Location: sydney
hey, it looks like you are making good progress, good work! I'm glad you're having some success trying to make sense of this painting technique haha...it took me a long time to understand it. The biggest breakthrough for me was realising that I was using too much paint - for some reason not many people ever mention that, but it's the key I think.

And yes, I would agree that light colours can be tricky - sometimes it's easier to start with quite a light colour and add the highlights first, then go through a long process of shading. I usually then use some additional lighter layers over the top at the end to further smooth out the result as well.

ANd washing your brush, well you know, you can never wash it enough I think! :) It doesn't take much effort, and it's good to get into the habit, for sure. I wash mine all the time during painting - pretty much every time I need to go back to the palette for more paint, I wash the brush. I am also a compulsive brush licker as well haha

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:16 pm
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Location: Osaka, Japan
Hey, Man.

It still hasn't quite clicked with me but I got I an idea how it works from watching Kaples DVD last year.

That's a great idea of starting with a colour maybe a little brighter than your chosen midtone and working down rather than up... I might give that a try next time I paint! Thanks :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:00 am 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:29 am
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Location: Sydney
ive been practising this all weekend. I was shown some good tips from muz, but i believe they work better with army painting than display. The paint is thicker with that technique. still excellent, but the transitions are easier to see.

However im slowy getting the feel with this, however i find i tend to have to move up and down in colour to get my blends smooth. White colours are very hard to place. However i found for edge higlighting, Andy (AKA) muz technique is quite nice for getting that defined sharp edge. Its a little thicker than i expected, but still flowy enough to get it in one go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:16 pm
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Location: Osaka, Japan
What is Muz' technique?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:36 pm
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Location: Sydney
It's just basic 3 or 4 stage colour layering... But you can then use selective glaz... (oh alright...) juices of the mid tone colour to blend them closer together and get a much more subtle effect. Rather than starting with a really light colour and then putting the shading in, i did a normal 4 stage highlight and then used the midtone juice colour to bring it together. Personally, I find it easier to place the lighter highlights that way. I did this after reading Sebastian's White Dwarf article just to try it out on a Dark Elf's banner and robes and was quite happy with the result. Of course, I then tried using matte medium in addition to the water and discovered that the name of the product is somewhat misleading and it turned out semi glossy :evil:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:21 pm 
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Location: Osaka, Japan
I thought about doing this also. Like someone else said in the thread, there's no 1 way to do it.

I know I asked Arjay sometime ago about how he painted his emperors champion; He mentioned he painted the shade, then the highlight and blended between.

I know the dude that painted Magmatrax did something similar with his NMM gold..

I guess I'll just practice until I find what works best for me! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:29 am
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Location: Sydney
Sorry muz i called you andy when it should have been alex! Realised after i reread my post .


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:23 pm
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Location: Glen Iris, Victoria
I really think this is one of the most informative and helpful articles on the web regarding this style of painting. After reading through it all, some of the key points of juicing seem to be:

:arrow: 1) Keep your paints thin, hence the term 'juice', I've also read reference to the consistency of skim milk (but 'juicing sounds better than 'skim milking' lol). The purpose of this is two-fold: to allow transparency through to the base being painted on to (to create the tone), and to allow for great control over the tone (or opacity of the layer).

:arrow: 2) By keeping your paints thin and applying multiple layers of juice, you'll get much greater contol over the colour and effect being produced. The point of this is you can gradually adjust what is being produced, and hence have greater control in achieving your goal. Think of an artist painting a sky, you don't think 'the sky is blue' and then slop blue paint in that area, the sky is formed through many different colours and visits to the pallette, slowly building the depth and richness that conveys the sky. Juicing supports this notion by allowing gradual change and transition from one colour to another. It's also allows you to include other colours to provide different effects e.g. tone in skin, common colours throughout the model, etc.

:arrow: 3) Something very simple, but extremely important is the amount of paint on your brush. I think this is one of the big problems for new starters. Seb gave a good description in one of his posts:

"This is why you should have some sort of paper towel/kitchen paper or something absorbent like that next to your palette when you paint. After loading the brush with paint, I wipe if off again and again on the paper until it seems dry - almost like drybrushing. But there will still be sufficient paint remaining on the brush to paint a thin layer on the mini."

The amount of paint, how wet it is, it's texture is so crucial and will only really come with practice. I know this is something that I struggle with the most because I am so accustomed to painting armies, dipping into a pot now and then, straight on the mini, harsh highlights. This is pretty much the opposite to juicing. As far as paint application is concerned this is a biggy, you are still painting the juice on consciously in a single area, nothing like when you may have used an ink or paint wash to drown an area.

:arrow: 4) Patience, patience, patience. This is not a quick way to paint simply due to the number of layers that are being painted on the model. I think Seb mentioned 80 - 90... The pay off should be great control, smooth blends, and the ability to incorporate subconscious (I don't think this is the right word here...) tones.

I hope this helps some people, I just wanted to clarify my own thoughts about this style.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:13 pm 
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Well, it's great to hear that you found the article useful :) I think it's good that this thread has become a bit of a work in progress as well...like an interactive article or something haha :lol:

All those points you wrote down look pretty good to me, looks like you got the message pretty well! I especially like your point no.2 - gradually building up the richness and depth in a colour by adding many layers, filters and tints to an area with different colours is a very nice way to describe the process I think. That is the sort of concept one should keep in mind.

One thing I will say though, is that I don't think everyone should get carried away thinking about the number of layers needed...the 'layers' aren't so distinct from one another as it might seem - it's so rapid when you are applying them, jsut a quick wipe over the area in a second or two, then a bit more here, a few more layers there, oh wait that bit looks like it needs to be a little darker I'll add a layer or two, a few more over the whole area, and so on......so who knows how many layers you've put on in the end! So don't worry about it when you hear '90 layers' or whatever haha, it's a bit misleading to talk about it like that. The number isn't important, only the result.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:02 am 
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Does it work the same with metalic paints, or are there some tips&tricks for blending with metalics?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Well I have been using the same sort of method for my metalics, seems to work well though the metalic pigments get lost if you add too much water in... (they are bigger and heavier than paint pigments)

In any case, I think plenty of thin coats will always beat one thick one, whatever colour you paint and whatever style you paint in.

This juicing method is sort of what I use to paint my display quality minis, lots of layers gradually building up colours to seemlessly blend from one colour to another, if you want to display a model its the way to do it!

Also, it is quite forgiving, if you mess up one or two layers when you are painting maybe 50 or so, who cares? It doesn't show on the final product enough to tell (because the layers are so transulcent, unless you muck up teh same area repetitively the eye that doesn't know won't notice)

Just my two cents! :lol:

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