Oz Painters

Forum for the Australian miniature painting and sculpting community
It is currently Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:23 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:40 pm
Posts: 670
Quote:
So that is the key difference for me. But everyone paints in a different way - and if you and david were already using the translucency, then I guess you were already using a technique more similar to the 'juices' method than what I call layering.


Ok, I think we have hit this on the head! lol

Your previous view on layering was different to ours in that you were layering and fethering where we were/are starting to layer in much thinner paints, therefore the jump to "juicing" seems much less to us...

It is worth noting that I am very new to the whole display painting world, I didn't paint anything that didn't belong to my army before GD two years ago. Because of this I have been widely experimenting myself and gaining a bit of knowledge online, and basing things I do off my interpretation of what has been said. Only a few months ago did I find OzPainters, so this was mainly based around random internet searches.
I think I have been slowly learning myself that lots of thin layers is easier for me to gain smooth transitions than wet blending or feathering or other techniques I tried, so I naturally gravitated to layering in this way. So then a new word describing how I am now starting to do layering was a bit strange to me...

having said that, I am naturally heading towards very think layers, but I have thus for not gone as far down the translucency track as you seem to reading through this, simply because I haven't felt the need at this stage.

_________________
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Melbourne
automaton wrote:
An illustration of the difference....


:lol: Sounds like you were just making it hard for yourself!

I'm curious. Have you gone one step further and tried the 'water colour' technique, where you use a white undercoat and the whole mini is painted with paint thinned 'til it is very transparent? You don't actually do any highlighting at all and you shouldn't technically need any pale coloured paints as your extreme highlights are produced by a single very thin layer of paint over the white undercoat. The whole mini is shaded using layers of the extremely thin paint.

I've seen this used to good effect, but never gone that far myself on a whole mini. It doesn't seem to be possible to get extremely bright colours using this method. ...but then that's not my thing anyway! :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 2253
Location: sydney
the watercolour method - actually I have done a few experiments similar to that recently...that 'rock chick' I did, I painted without using basecoats, straight over a white undercoat...however, I did roughly block in some shading before I began. I've seen a mini by remy tremblay (darkeden) that he painted using the method you described, jsut shading straight over a white undercoat, and it looked fantastic...he reckoned the mini took 5 or 6 hours to paint too, which is absurd haha. It's this one:

http://coolminiornot.com/163464

_________________
Image and the GoH store: Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:15 am
Posts: 5583
Location: The Realm of Hobby.
Hahaha.... Seb I was gonna post that exact pic! but you beat me to it. :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:40 pm
Posts: 670
I have thought about that actually!

Definately one thing I will try eventually... Though metalics could be interesting (you'd do them teh same way but paint silver instead of white me thinks, can't think of how to do it otherwise)

As for not havig bright colours... why? If you paint a pright coloutr over white it will be much, much brighter than if the same colour was painted over black, so the colours could be as bright as you like really...

_________________
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Melbourne
Telstar0101 wrote:
I have thought about that actually!

Definately one thing I will try eventually... Though metalics could be interesting (you'd do them teh same way but paint silver instead of white me thinks, can't think of how to do it otherwise)


Well, I'd probably use NMM with this technique, from what I've seen it fits better.

Telstar0101 wrote:
As for not havig bright colours... why? If you paint a pright coloutr over white it will be much, much brighter than if the same colour was painted over black, so the colours could be as bright as you like really...


That is the case with standard techniques over white v. black undercoat but not for this technique. You're applying the thinned paints as if they are water colours, that is on your highlights you can see the white through them. This tends to give a more pastel (less saturated) appearance to the highlights.

You can sort of see the effect in the example that Seb provided. Way back about 7 years ago there was an American guy (I think his name was Jim Jackson) who used this technique exclusively. He wasn't the world's best painter but he got some interesting results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:19 am
Posts: 2216
Location: Norwich, England
Well you lot were busy last night :)

I think for me the idea is that layering is a traditional approach to highlighting and shading where you start with a mid-tone and apply successive lighter or darker layers of the mid/base colour.

With juicing the paint is thinner to such an extent that you can use it for changes in colour as well as simple shading. And as the translucancy becomes the main tool in smoothing the blends you can build gradual changes without loads of mixed variations as Seb has said.


Essentially though, unless you are wet blending or trying something like a cell shading effect (Must try that some day) all acrylic work is done with "layers".

_________________
PrawnPower is . . . finally updating this out of date comment

My CMoN Gallery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:31 am
Posts: 159
Location: Perth
PrawnPower wrote:

With juicing the paint is thinner to such an extent that you can use it for changes in colour as well as simple shading. And as the translucancy becomes the main tool in smoothing the blends you can build gradual changes without loads of mixed variations as Seb has said.


See that's what I always called 'layering'.
I thought that's what most people meant when they were talking about layering as well. :lol:

Though I must say I never thinned my paints enough cos I was lazy and didn't want to do a billion layers :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 pm
Posts: 278
Location: Gladstone, Queensland
With regards to the point about colour intensity with the 'watercolour' technique, most paints reach their maximum intensity somewhere around the middle of being extremely diluted (and thus transparent) and totally opaque.

Therefore you should theoretically be able to get brighter colours using this technique provided you keep this in mind, although I think it would be much harder to get the range of hues that can be achieved with the layering/juicing technique, and I think that this colour variation gives a strong illusion of colour intensity. It would probably be easier with a slow drying paint, either oil or perhaps those new 'interactive' artists acrylics.

It is an interesting approach to painting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:01 pm
Posts: 818
Zordana wrote:
PrawnPower wrote:

With juicing the paint is thinner to such an extent that you can use it for changes in colour as well as simple shading. And as the translucancy becomes the main tool in smoothing the blends you can build gradual changes without loads of mixed variations as Seb has said.


See that's what I always called 'layering'.
I thought that's what most people meant when they were talking about layering as well. :lol:

Though I must say I never thinned my paints enough cos I was lazy and didn't want to do a billion layers :D


I'm the same. I like doing army-sized collections, not just one miniature - so on the whole, the amount of time invested is already ginormous! Only time I"ll spend more than 2 hours per model, is on the leaders and models that stand out. And tanks. I hate painting tanks. *sniff*

All this discussion about layering and juicing has made me hungry. Pizza anyone?

_________________
Miniature art, galleries, and articles
torm3nt's miniatures gallery


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Melbourne
:shock: 2 hours! :shock:

...takes me longer than that to prep a figure... :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:33 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Sydney
nosferatu wrote:
:shock: 2 hours! :shock:

...takes me longer than that to prep a figure... :roll:


^ what he said.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:03 pm
Posts: 1
I hate myself already for "necro"ing this thread, but I didn't think this was worth a new topic and after hours of searching with no fruits, I ask of a request for an article mentioned here. Does anyone have the article from the White Dwarf 320 by Sebastian (the one of an Ork Nob, perhaps in Mega-Armour from what I read)? I live in the United States so of course none of the nearby gamestores would carry any addition of the Australian White Dwarf, though they do have some older ones archived. A quick scan of this or directing me to a place where the article is up for view would be greatly appreciated, even though I know it is an old article that was limited in some ways by word limits. I really enjoy reading multiple articles on the same subject as I find it to help me grasp a better understanding.

Again, I am sorry for necro'ing this thread and I hope it doesn't bother anyone.
Thanks,
Xethik


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 88 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group