Oz Painters

Mark, whilst I think that you opinions are very much justified, you may just want to consider your wording. I think there is probably a way to voice your disagreement with their seminars perhaps without sounding like you have a chip on your shoulder.

Have you actually asked either Mark or Allan why the seminars are priced the way they are? Both are members here and I am sure one of them would give you an answer if you asked them?

Also, I believe that the Panel Q&A are not the judges, but rather a panel of hobbyists, that will answer your questions. And I mean $5 is really not that much cash. Thats the price of a coffe at some local coffe shops around my area.

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You are right, I have been a little more opinionated then usual on this and I apologise, I usually reread my posts before putting my foot in it but this time I'm just spitting venom, focused on my personal issues and blind to the positives. I've definetly not articulated myself well or appropirately these last few days thats for sure. I don't mean to burn the people running the seminars, thats not justified, they are providing a good service. I just disagree with the pricing and lack of information available on the seminars.

To paraphrase my issues.

Lots of the frustration comes from the lack info available, each item has had a delay, not all the info is put up at once or its buried somewhere in the posts of the blog. I would rather no info be posted until all of it was available. Website maintenance seems poor.

Some of the prices seem a little to steep to ask when there is no info available for what you are getting.

The amount of costs associated with the event make me feel like they want to empty my pocket first and supply a hobby related experience second.

I'm not keen on emailing the guys running it, to be honest its not going to make a difference, I doubt they want to hear from me and the way the pricing works isn't the issue. I just wish that all the info was up at once, and not posted ad-hoc. I still think that a $5 Q&A is a little cheeky though, I think that I'd prefer a good coffee personally.

The good things about AusCon is that there are seminars available, no other Con does that. Also that there is a half decent website, yeah it needs some maintenance and there are some issues, but it looks professional and that is a huge step forward on the hobby front in Oz. I guess I'm dissapointed that they priced me out of the seminars and haven't supplied the info as comprehensively as I expected.

I'm going to try and focus on the positives now, not the negatives, that way I can hopefully get excited about it again, and paint something half decent.

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Life is like a hot bath. It feels good while you’re in it, but the longer you stay in, the more wrinkled you get.

you know what they say about assumptions

Just tell them some more information about the seminars is required to help people make more informed purchase decisions. Apart from cost, you want to know
(1) max limit of people per seminar, and
(2) description of what is on offer.

If there are too many people as you mentioned, say 30, you won't be able to see what's going on.

The organisers may not yet know the full description of whats going to be on offer in a seminar, as the demonstrators probably haven't given them more info. Also they may not anticipate the type of info you are after. Give them examples, say for a painting tute seminar, are models provided for participation or is it just watching.

Paying $5 for painting feedback is very strange though. I would imagine this $5 would discourage young / old / beginner / experienced alike from asking.

I haven't looked at any of the schedule/seminar/ticket info yet so I can't comment much.

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Guild of Harmony

Hey All,

Mark here from AUSCON. Sorry, I've just stumbled onto this thread and am going to try and answer as many questions as I can.

Ok, site navigation...That's something we are working on. Most of the areas have links to our blog (which is updated regularly), and we are adding downloadable .pdf's and the like on a very regular basis, you have to bear with us, as AUSCON is not our full time jobs! We work on this every night and most weekends, as well as having full time jobs, wives, kids etc!

Now then, the costs for seminars. We are putting the finishing touches to an information pack for the seminar sessions. There will be a brief on each seminar, what you can expect to get out of it (toys etc), and a cost. It has taken a little longer then we anticipated as some of the presenters are still confirming their attendance and what they want to cover. Those that are "locked in" have been included in the pricing
$5 for a "free seminar" is in fact a booking cost. Free seminars are turn up and enjoy style of sessions (we are adding some more to this in the coming days). However, there will often be a restriction of between 20-30 places, $5 books you a seat. Effectively it reserves you a spot at the event, rather than turning up and hoping you can get in. (but the turn up and hope seats are free for everyone)
The free for all Q&A session caters for up to 80 people, so seats shouldn't be a problem. Again, $5 books you a chair for the event (Generally front row) Again, non reserved places are free!
$20 is usually a session where we are presenting an industry known identity, any in many cases they are not charging us to use their services. However, we are still having to cover the cost of an audio system, large screen, camera and operator, the RNA showground costs, electricity and material used by the presenter. These session are generally cappped at 15-20 people, sometimes smaller classes of 10people only
$40 is the next step up. Usually the presenter has costs involved in using their services, all of the above costs plus handouts, materials and the like. Many of these sessions are capped at 15 people!

Entry into the Wizards of Oz is indeed $5 an entry, capped (cost wise) after 10 entries. In order to make this event different and to keep a certain standard, we've booked a seperate room for the display and competition area. It allows us to display the entries in a more secure environment, plus a much quieter area (no hundreds of gamers creating major distractions and that general noise level). Our judges also get to view the miniatures without people leaning over their shoulders, the photographer (which we also have to pay for), can set up an area dedicated to professionally photographing each and every entry, and we can also set up another seminar area. Past Golden Demon winning figures will be on display, as well as unique pieces and limited edition minis in glass cabinets will be about the room. We are also creating unique medallions for all our winners, plus the People's Choice and Best in Show awards. This also means added costs, in fact, many thousands of dollars. We could compromise and create a run of the mill, Church Hall type of show, but that is not our intention. We are setting what we hope will be a benchmark, raising the professionalism and appearance of shows, as well as not going broke in the process. We want there to be a viable alternative to the Demons, allowing peole to enter any brand of miniature they like!

With the economic climate. we have had issues in getting actual $$$ sponsorship, therefore, the Wizards is almost an entirely self funded exercise this year.

Whilst I know many will not believe this, AUSCON is not a money making venture for Allan and I. In fact, we are have invested many thousands of dollars to create the Wizards of Oz and AUSCON. The RNA is not a cheap venue to hire, plus all the sundries you pay for as well, not to mention the hidden costs such as food and drink for our volunteers, prizes, trophies, catering, rental of display cabinets, trestles, chairs and the list goes on and on. Trade displays (Retailers and Vendors)are covering only the costs of the space, their booths, power and tables. (Why? Well, we want to see as many local retailers as possible attending this event, we are very passionate about supporting Australian business, so much so we have turned down sponsorship from a couple f overseas mail order companies). Most of the Tournaments are the same, and we have donated space to groups such as the WWII re-enactors who are bringing in some impressive hardware (Sdkfz222 for example).

I hope this has helped clear up some of the issues and de-fuse the potential anger I have read in this thread.

Allan and I are always open to hearing ideas, criticism (providing it's constructive) and postivity as well. Please feel free to contact us, or e-mail me directly mark@auscongames.com.au

Please help us get this event off the ground, it's a HUGE step for both of us to do this, but we want to see an event like Salute! And Adepticon here in Australia.

Hope to see you in April!

Cheers,
Mark

Whilst a very much appreciate you taking the time to reply to the questions.

I think there should have been more thought as to how introduce costs and ideas without suprising anyone....

I assume you are catering to a Verteran hobby base. Which, despite what most people think, dont have money just to throw around on hobby products. And need to budget what available money they have.

Like there was never any indication that semiars would cost money. if there was, people can factor that in. I really dont think that all the outrage is directed to the cost of the seminars, but rather how it was sprung on us.

same with the cost of $5 dollars an entry for each Wizards of Oz.... holy crap! if I had of know that, I would have put my brushes down months ago.... This is the very first I have heard of this... unless there was an outline that explained the costs somewhere and I missed it. This does come to a big suprise to me.

Again that has come as a big shock to me, because if I had of known I would have just done one or 2 good entries, rather then go the whole hog... which I would say I am peaking at already 10 entries and still have plans for more....

Please can you post your above post in your topic in the Event Announcements sub-forum. I think people need to know about this sort of information!

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Hi Kyle,

I've sent you a PM and e-mail as I'd love to have a chat about this and see what we can do. I've contacted and had an e-mail conversation with Mark (Agent_Venom)....can you have an e-mail conversation??

Anyhow, Allan and I are keen to cross this bridge and forge on with the event, but we really take the feedback seriously and want to try and reach a happy medium for all.

Let us know.

Cheers!
Mark

Hey All,

There has been some feedback of late which Allan and I have received, some of which we thought was harsh, but some of it hit the nail on the head.

We went away and had a series of chats, took some advice from others and have come back with the following, so everyone knows exactly what is going on!

Firstly, the Wizards of Oz entry will be $5 per entry, with a price cap of $30. This means it you want to enter 4 seperate entries it will cost you $20, but if you want to enter 16, 12, 22 it will only cost you $30. We want to try and encourage multiple entries, and some of you feel that the original $50 cap was too high. We have to charge for entries purely for the fact that $$$ sponosrship has been very, very hard to come by. Whilst we have been well supported in Prizes and Trophies across the board, it doesn't pay for Display Cabinets, the room, lighting, feeding and watering our judges etc.

We are also offering a limited edition resin miniature created by our very own Sebastian at Guild of Harmony. There will be a very limited number of 150 avalailable, and if you pay a $45 package, you get the Wizards entries, plus a figure. (The figure itself will be on display in the coming days, it is a Steampunk-esque Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and it looks amazing!)


Ok, onto seminars.

We never made it a secret that there would be free seminars and paid seminars, a fact mentioned here on Oz Painters and on Wargamer AU. Again, we simply cannot afford to offer all the seminars for no cost as it would send Allan and I to the poor house.

Just a few things you may not be aware of. Allan and I receive no income from AUSCON, we do it part time on weekends, night times and often during our working hours at lunch and similar. It is entirely self funded, with a scarey set of $ attached to it! Yes I do work as a free lance events person, which means I do know what I am doing, and Allan has an IT background, but we have had to pay several people to do work for us behind the scenes, and we need to try and re-imburse those costs.

Ultimately this means we have to pass the cost on, without making it seem as though we are robbing you blind.

Therefore, we have set a weekend entry price, plus day price...and a reasonable cost for Games Tournaments. Despite the fact that we really want the Wizards of Oz to be a succesful event, we don't want the gamers unable to attend if their events are $80-$100. This was seen at another big event, where the gamers felt let down and stayed away...We need to strike that fine balance, and believe me, it is a tough challenge.

All Seminars will have a large screen monitor, sound system and at times a Camera Operator who will be doing close up shots etc, depending upon the nature of the seminar. (Not the cheapest of exercise, but we want this to be a professional event, with professional resources and materials)

Free seminars are exactly that. Usually held in the Wizards room, with between 20-60 attendees allowed. These are a "First in best dressed" event, if the numbers fill and there are no places left, we shut the door. If you want to book a place at $5, that will lock in your seat (generally front row or best possible) and ensure you don't miss out. It is not aimed at getting rid of our younger attendees or the like, it is just a way to reserve a seat.

$20 seminars are usually involving a "named" identity, who may be handing out material, but who will be covering a topic of their speciality. These will be capped at 20 people (usually), sometimes as low as 10 people depending on the subject matter.

$40 seminars are generally the subjects where a fair bit of material or give aways are present, or the nature of the seminar means that numbers must be extremely limited. Again, Audio, Screen and Camera Operator is included and will be in our smaller, airconditioned seminar room.

We are not looking at making a fortune on the seminars, as again, we want to cover our costs, but we want to look at offering a bigger, better show in 2012. To do so, we need the Sponsors to support us, but being a fledgling event, it's very hard to get them on board.

We are also endeavouring to support our local retail stores, rather than accepting sponsorship from overseas mail order businesses who are seen as real threats to your local games / hobby store.

I am just waiting on a couple of people to confirm exactly what their seminars involve, then we will release the .pdf document outlining all of this. It will probably appear on Monday on our blog and downloadable area of our web site.

For those of you who felt slighted by our pricing, lack of information etc, we do apologise, but we are doing the very best we can with such a large undertaking, but we feel this event will be the first in a long line of really great AUSCON events which we will continue to grow and improve on year by year, but only with your feedback, help and support.

Thanks for your time, please keep the feedback coming in. Whilst it may sting at times, we do value it and we read all the e-mails, PM's and feedback articles and try to act on them where warranted.

Cheers!
Mark